I drive by the massive wind farms in west Texas regularly and every time I notice a number of machines are not turning. So is the increased installed capacity keeping up with the installed machines downtime? I often wonder if all of the operating machines are connected to the grid so they can contribute. There are too many blind supporters of wind who don’t want the truth known. We can not afford this government subsidized pay off to political buddies scheme to continue.
Windmills/wind turbines only provide capacity, like in MW's. They DO NOT do "Work" ! Therefore a generator like a wind turbine is measured in MW's. So, we say that a generator generated 2 MW's per hour for 6 hours & 1 MW for 5 hours for a total generated of 12 + 5 MW's = 17 MW total. Then someone might use a portion of that power at the rate of 1/2 MW/hr for 10 hours (power) to operate a heater or 5 MWhours. (in the example above, 17 MW's generated over a period of 11 hours is, on average, 17 mw/11 hrs or 1.55 MW's per hr.
Bio: William E. Fortune
Mr. Fortune, president of Industrial Consultants Inc, worked for 16 years as facilities engineer for the Department of Defense (Navy) concerning the overhaul and repair of nuclear submarines. As facilities engineer, he was responsible for the design, construction & contract specifications for purchase of many various pieces of equipment, systems and facilities that were used by the shipyard to overhaul submarines. Systems included electrical power distribution (Submarine power-440 Volts ) up to 800 amps, controls using programmable logic controllers, 600 psi steam, chilled water, 4500 psi hydraulics , 6000 psi ultra dry air compressors, oil and refrigerants reprocessing, chemical cleaning facilities, sandblasting and painting systems. Mr. Fortune introduced the idea of using a storage/retrieval stacker cranes for Naval Shipyards and specified the one built in the Machine Shop, Bldg. 300 at the PNSY.
He was also project engineer for the more technical parts of the design and construction of the Navy’s largest and most advanced machine shop east of the Mississippi. One of the major accomplishments was the design of the machine shop’s pump test facility. The test facility allowed the Navy to test all hydraulic, lube oil and water pumps that are used on nuclear submarines that can be overhauled at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. When the construction contractor had difficulty building parts of the project Mr. Fortune quit the Shipyard & became the Contractor’s Quality Control (CQC) Inspector and also contracted to build parts of the facilities. As CQC he was involved in the quality control for the construction of such items as concrete structures, cranes, pipe welding, sewer systems, steel construction, control systems, and the entire test facilities that are used in the testing of various submarine components.
Pryor to becoming a full time DoD employee, Mr. Fortune worked one summer vacation as a Circle T test director at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. His duties included directing the operational/certification testing of the Emergency Diesel Generator & the Feedwater Pumps & System.
While still employed by the Shipyard, Fortune was asked to spend several weeks at Subic Bay Navy Base specifying test equipment for the testing of submarine systems under the Sub-safe program. During his last few days he discovered that several workers were not doing their job testing the ship’s systems. On the last day of duty, at a meeting with the Base Commander, Fortune said that the Ship’s Skipper & Base Commander needed to order all members of the Test Group to be on board during sea trials. The ship completed Sea Trials successfully.
Some other highlights while at the Shipyard: Built, with the help of Maintenance mechanics, an oil reclaiming facility using abandoned equipment. The oil was returned to “new” specifications after it was used to flush dirt & water out of ships hydraulic systems.
Another facility from abandoned equipment was automated to process/reclaim trichlorotrifluoroethane (used as another flushing/cleaning fluid). The cleaned fluid was pumped into a specially designed semitrailer/tanker that could be taken to the ship & the dirty fluid returned to the other ½ of the tanker instead of using 55 gallon steel drums.
Mr. Fortune uncovered fraud during an inspection of those 6000 psi, Ultra-dry air compressors mentioned above. The manufacturer used some components that were rated for only 3000 psi. & tried to show evidence that the manufacture of those components had certified them for 6000 psi, which they had not. He claimed that other Shipyards accepted his equipment & had connections “high up”. I said “you are dealing with Portsmouth Naval Shipyard now”. The Navy inspectors in Virginia requested that PNSY accept the compressors & “fix” them. I told them that they would not be allowed in the Shipyard & they were to default the vender & I was “going up the Chain of Command” all the way to the President of the U.S. if necessary. I soon got a call from some Department Head saying the “buck stops here”, the vender will be defaulted & ordered to pay back all Progress Payments, which he did and he went out of business.
I loved my job for the Navy. But I was a threat to “higher ups” so they wouldn’t promote me, so I quit & became a contractor (CQC mentioned above). A new Department Head was so scared he called the Shipyard to see where I was, because he had bad dream about me & thought I was on the same airplane with him (I was Chief Union Steward & in his department). All the pastries his wife made to bribe the Navy Brass over the years didn’t help. He was caught “spilling the beans about a Union dispute” to some media people, which got him terminated. He was the first, but not the last. During a system flush of the newly constructed hydraulics test system in the new Machine Shop (mentioned above) someone smelled ammonia that we were using. The Fire Dept arrived, followed by dozens of other people including the Shop Head & Fire Chief. I told the Chief that “this area is under Contractor control & I’m the Safety Officer & “I’m ordering you to remove all those people that don’t have SCBA to leave the area, including yourself”. The Shop Head got me kicked off the Yard for a month, but when they had to shut down the job because no other engineer could be found to replace me, I returned. The Shop Head was furious, because I could park my car below his office in the Security Area (no private cars allowed, usually) & had air conditioning in my portable office. They said he pounded his fists on the table at the Shipyard Commanders Office trying to get me removed again. Two-3 years after the Machine Shop was finished there was a huge oil spill. The workers had pushed oil & water from the Oil Pump Test Area into the Fire Sprinkler Water collection tank, instead of the Oil/Water Collection Tank, a system I designed. The Shop Head said “Fortune did it”. An investigation showed that I was long gone from the Shipyard for some time & it was his fault. He immediately got transferred to another Yard.
In the mid 1970’s Mr. Fortune built a house at 10 Rollingwood, Eliot, Maine, doing all the plumbing, well pump/water system, electrical, heating system, sewer system, concrete basement floor & finish work.
Industrial Consultants Inc was formed in 1984 for the primary purpose of doing design/build construction projects; many were done for the Department of Defense. From underground utilities and railroad tracks to high voltage power distribution systems (up to 5000 volts) there were many and various project in between.
In 2000 W. Fortune & Co was established to do design/build geothermal heat pump systems and other oil and gas fired HVAC systems. In 2012 NH Clean Energy was formed with other engineers to design a facility that would take landfill materials, gasify them, and convert them to synthetic products such as paraffin & synthetic F-T Diesel. The plant would also produce about 35 MW's of electricity and enough steam to heat the city of Concord, NH/replace Concord Steam.
Other: Founder of Fathers United For Equal Justice (NH, 1971); 2 yr. term, Chairman, ASME, Northern Chapter; Chief Steward, International Federation of Professional & Technical Engineers (IFPTE), Local 4 (while DoD employee at the Shipyard). Conducted approx. 15 court cases including one Jury Trial, wining about 90 % of them.
You are exactly right, Bill. Another generator or generators must provide the balance for the intermittent power from windmills. Without federal subsidies, windmills would not exist. I have argued that windmills should provide their own battery backup so they can provide dependable power but as long as federal subsidies exist, they have no incentive to do that. Thank you, Bill, for reading and commenting. I hope you continue to read my Substack and comment. Ed
I'm asking that you people spend more time promoting (advantages) of Nuclear Waste Consuming Molten Salt Reactors. Russia has been using that U.S. technology for 44 YEARS ! China & ppl in the Netherlands are manufacturing them to be used in cargo ships. ThorCon has a good design, if they could only get past the dumb regulators, like in Indonesia.
Note: MSR's are so simple that we can manufacture them in our garage/small Machine Shop ! The more PhD's we have the less we engineers can get done !!!
Note 2: We need to go in the attack: message posted to my FB page & sent to NPR:
NPR: "All Things Considered". Misleading, false ! Females that run NPR are not capable of looking beyond their skin; not capable of considering technical issues; it's all about their emotions & feelings.
Air Source Heat Pumps are not that efficient relative to electric heat. It takes a lot of energy to suck heat out of cold air, which requires larger equipment than Geothermal Heat Pumps. In addition, Air Source Heat Pump outdoor coils need to be defrosted. That requires shutting the heat pump down for heating the building while the coil is defrosted (by heating it), either by using electric heat or using the heat pump's compressor. Most often, the heat to defrost the outdoor coil is taken from the building (cooling the building) that's trying to be heated.
The GREEN NEW DEAL women are just as dumb as those that promote "the deal". They apparently are not capable of comprehending where the electricity will come from to power all those Heat Pumps. People have blocked installing more natural gas pipelines, so maybe we will need to burn more coal !
Those that think that more windmills & solar panels will provide all that electricity are OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY ! NO ONE has provided calculations showing how many turbines, panels & batteries are needed and the cost to provide all the heat & electricity any State uses !!!
Ed, this probably originates with the slang used on the energy trading floors. MW is often interchangeably with MWH while making a trade. "I am looking for a eight hour 25MW strip starting hour ending nine. Do you have it and what's your price?". The price will be per MWH, but will be quoted as pet MW. It's sloppy, but it's the way it gets done.
At this point in time all we can do is rely on ERCOT to do the best they can with what they have available at the time and keep us safe. Summer will be the big test as even more solar comes on line. I am not sure politicians know what a wake up call is... you would think Uri was enough, but it seems you have to be screaming in their ears for years before they actually get it and the light switch turns on... or in our case doesn't come on.
I haven't yet decided if it is all the money being waved around, or politicians caution for not wanting to take a stand, or maybe the solar, wind and battery folks bs is just so good they think it is real.
Certainly New York and Gov.Hockul fell for their tall tales and wind got their way with new contracts at almost double the price. Sometimes you just wonder how people can be so stupid, but it's not their money after all - it's ours they are spending!
I agree, JF. Politicians seem to be overcome with mass formation psychosis which is troubling to say the least. With NERC and many power grids sounding the alarm on coming blackouts, one would think that power grids would be backing off on adding more wind and solar but the federal subsidies are just overwhelming the system. The big worry is that natural gas generation is declining rapidly in all deregulated power markets because it cannot compete with wind and solar that can sell into grids at negative prices due to their federal subsidies. The only thing that can change this is a change in administrations.
Has anyone ever considered what I would call the “entropy effect” of adding more and more wind capacity to the generation system? It seems to me that taking energy out of the atmosphere at a massive scale over large geographic areas will reduce the energy available to propel wind that would have otherwise been available. Combined with the Coriolis effect this seems like it would impact the location of the wind energy and create new wind and weather patterns. Seems like Mom nature would have something to say about that ;-)
You are right on target, Mtnboy44. There is no question that these gigantic wind farms are changing weather patterns because they remove so much kinetic energy from winds. Betz's Law says no wind turbine can capture more than 59.3% of the kinetic energy in wind but that is enough to change wind patterns and therefore wind patterns and the weather. It is madness.
If you are suggesting that windmills are terrain equivalent to skyscrapers et.al. Remember there is a difference. While they may provide friction to the wind, they are not specifically designed to take additional energy from it, nor cover the vast territories it would take to get to renewable nirvana.
Yes, it looks like the wake up calls won't be heeded until, as you say, the ultimate wake up call - the failure of the grid system. In my opinion, it's already too late to rebuild reliability in a timely fashion, because it takes several years to build and bring online power plants that will restore reliability. At this point, all it will take for the "ultimate" wake up is a bout of extreme weather.
I'm afraid you are correct, Al. Widespread grid failures are almost guaranteed at this point but it will take years to restore the integrity of America's power grids.
I drive by the massive wind farms in west Texas regularly and every time I notice a number of machines are not turning. So is the increased installed capacity keeping up with the installed machines downtime? I often wonder if all of the operating machines are connected to the grid so they can contribute. There are too many blind supporters of wind who don’t want the truth known. We can not afford this government subsidized pay off to political buddies scheme to continue.
Windmills/wind turbines only provide capacity, like in MW's. They DO NOT do "Work" ! Therefore a generator like a wind turbine is measured in MW's. So, we say that a generator generated 2 MW's per hour for 6 hours & 1 MW for 5 hours for a total generated of 12 + 5 MW's = 17 MW total. Then someone might use a portion of that power at the rate of 1/2 MW/hr for 10 hours (power) to operate a heater or 5 MWhours. (in the example above, 17 MW's generated over a period of 11 hours is, on average, 17 mw/11 hrs or 1.55 MW's per hr.
Bio: William E. Fortune
Mr. Fortune, president of Industrial Consultants Inc, worked for 16 years as facilities engineer for the Department of Defense (Navy) concerning the overhaul and repair of nuclear submarines. As facilities engineer, he was responsible for the design, construction & contract specifications for purchase of many various pieces of equipment, systems and facilities that were used by the shipyard to overhaul submarines. Systems included electrical power distribution (Submarine power-440 Volts ) up to 800 amps, controls using programmable logic controllers, 600 psi steam, chilled water, 4500 psi hydraulics , 6000 psi ultra dry air compressors, oil and refrigerants reprocessing, chemical cleaning facilities, sandblasting and painting systems. Mr. Fortune introduced the idea of using a storage/retrieval stacker cranes for Naval Shipyards and specified the one built in the Machine Shop, Bldg. 300 at the PNSY.
He was also project engineer for the more technical parts of the design and construction of the Navy’s largest and most advanced machine shop east of the Mississippi. One of the major accomplishments was the design of the machine shop’s pump test facility. The test facility allowed the Navy to test all hydraulic, lube oil and water pumps that are used on nuclear submarines that can be overhauled at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. When the construction contractor had difficulty building parts of the project Mr. Fortune quit the Shipyard & became the Contractor’s Quality Control (CQC) Inspector and also contracted to build parts of the facilities. As CQC he was involved in the quality control for the construction of such items as concrete structures, cranes, pipe welding, sewer systems, steel construction, control systems, and the entire test facilities that are used in the testing of various submarine components.
Pryor to becoming a full time DoD employee, Mr. Fortune worked one summer vacation as a Circle T test director at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. His duties included directing the operational/certification testing of the Emergency Diesel Generator & the Feedwater Pumps & System.
While still employed by the Shipyard, Fortune was asked to spend several weeks at Subic Bay Navy Base specifying test equipment for the testing of submarine systems under the Sub-safe program. During his last few days he discovered that several workers were not doing their job testing the ship’s systems. On the last day of duty, at a meeting with the Base Commander, Fortune said that the Ship’s Skipper & Base Commander needed to order all members of the Test Group to be on board during sea trials. The ship completed Sea Trials successfully.
Some other highlights while at the Shipyard: Built, with the help of Maintenance mechanics, an oil reclaiming facility using abandoned equipment. The oil was returned to “new” specifications after it was used to flush dirt & water out of ships hydraulic systems.
Another facility from abandoned equipment was automated to process/reclaim trichlorotrifluoroethane (used as another flushing/cleaning fluid). The cleaned fluid was pumped into a specially designed semitrailer/tanker that could be taken to the ship & the dirty fluid returned to the other ½ of the tanker instead of using 55 gallon steel drums.
Mr. Fortune uncovered fraud during an inspection of those 6000 psi, Ultra-dry air compressors mentioned above. The manufacturer used some components that were rated for only 3000 psi. & tried to show evidence that the manufacture of those components had certified them for 6000 psi, which they had not. He claimed that other Shipyards accepted his equipment & had connections “high up”. I said “you are dealing with Portsmouth Naval Shipyard now”. The Navy inspectors in Virginia requested that PNSY accept the compressors & “fix” them. I told them that they would not be allowed in the Shipyard & they were to default the vender & I was “going up the Chain of Command” all the way to the President of the U.S. if necessary. I soon got a call from some Department Head saying the “buck stops here”, the vender will be defaulted & ordered to pay back all Progress Payments, which he did and he went out of business.
I loved my job for the Navy. But I was a threat to “higher ups” so they wouldn’t promote me, so I quit & became a contractor (CQC mentioned above). A new Department Head was so scared he called the Shipyard to see where I was, because he had bad dream about me & thought I was on the same airplane with him (I was Chief Union Steward & in his department). All the pastries his wife made to bribe the Navy Brass over the years didn’t help. He was caught “spilling the beans about a Union dispute” to some media people, which got him terminated. He was the first, but not the last. During a system flush of the newly constructed hydraulics test system in the new Machine Shop (mentioned above) someone smelled ammonia that we were using. The Fire Dept arrived, followed by dozens of other people including the Shop Head & Fire Chief. I told the Chief that “this area is under Contractor control & I’m the Safety Officer & “I’m ordering you to remove all those people that don’t have SCBA to leave the area, including yourself”. The Shop Head got me kicked off the Yard for a month, but when they had to shut down the job because no other engineer could be found to replace me, I returned. The Shop Head was furious, because I could park my car below his office in the Security Area (no private cars allowed, usually) & had air conditioning in my portable office. They said he pounded his fists on the table at the Shipyard Commanders Office trying to get me removed again. Two-3 years after the Machine Shop was finished there was a huge oil spill. The workers had pushed oil & water from the Oil Pump Test Area into the Fire Sprinkler Water collection tank, instead of the Oil/Water Collection Tank, a system I designed. The Shop Head said “Fortune did it”. An investigation showed that I was long gone from the Shipyard for some time & it was his fault. He immediately got transferred to another Yard.
In the mid 1970’s Mr. Fortune built a house at 10 Rollingwood, Eliot, Maine, doing all the plumbing, well pump/water system, electrical, heating system, sewer system, concrete basement floor & finish work.
Industrial Consultants Inc was formed in 1984 for the primary purpose of doing design/build construction projects; many were done for the Department of Defense. From underground utilities and railroad tracks to high voltage power distribution systems (up to 5000 volts) there were many and various project in between.
In 2000 W. Fortune & Co was established to do design/build geothermal heat pump systems and other oil and gas fired HVAC systems. In 2012 NH Clean Energy was formed with other engineers to design a facility that would take landfill materials, gasify them, and convert them to synthetic products such as paraffin & synthetic F-T Diesel. The plant would also produce about 35 MW's of electricity and enough steam to heat the city of Concord, NH/replace Concord Steam.
Other: Founder of Fathers United For Equal Justice (NH, 1971); 2 yr. term, Chairman, ASME, Northern Chapter; Chief Steward, International Federation of Professional & Technical Engineers (IFPTE), Local 4 (while DoD employee at the Shipyard). Conducted approx. 15 court cases including one Jury Trial, wining about 90 % of them.
William Eaton Fortune, Lee, NH 603 365 0251 indust.consult@rcn.com
You are exactly right, Bill. Another generator or generators must provide the balance for the intermittent power from windmills. Without federal subsidies, windmills would not exist. I have argued that windmills should provide their own battery backup so they can provide dependable power but as long as federal subsidies exist, they have no incentive to do that. Thank you, Bill, for reading and commenting. I hope you continue to read my Substack and comment. Ed
I'm asking that you people spend more time promoting (advantages) of Nuclear Waste Consuming Molten Salt Reactors. Russia has been using that U.S. technology for 44 YEARS ! China & ppl in the Netherlands are manufacturing them to be used in cargo ships. ThorCon has a good design, if they could only get past the dumb regulators, like in Indonesia.
Note: MSR's are so simple that we can manufacture them in our garage/small Machine Shop ! The more PhD's we have the less we engineers can get done !!!
Note 2: We need to go in the attack: message posted to my FB page & sent to NPR:
NPR: "All Things Considered". Misleading, false ! Females that run NPR are not capable of looking beyond their skin; not capable of considering technical issues; it's all about their emotions & feelings.
Air Source Heat Pumps are not that efficient relative to electric heat. It takes a lot of energy to suck heat out of cold air, which requires larger equipment than Geothermal Heat Pumps. In addition, Air Source Heat Pump outdoor coils need to be defrosted. That requires shutting the heat pump down for heating the building while the coil is defrosted (by heating it), either by using electric heat or using the heat pump's compressor. Most often, the heat to defrost the outdoor coil is taken from the building (cooling the building) that's trying to be heated.
The GREEN NEW DEAL women are just as dumb as those that promote "the deal". They apparently are not capable of comprehending where the electricity will come from to power all those Heat Pumps. People have blocked installing more natural gas pipelines, so maybe we will need to burn more coal !
Those that think that more windmills & solar panels will provide all that electricity are OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY ! NO ONE has provided calculations showing how many turbines, panels & batteries are needed and the cost to provide all the heat & electricity any State uses !!!
Ed, this probably originates with the slang used on the energy trading floors. MW is often interchangeably with MWH while making a trade. "I am looking for a eight hour 25MW strip starting hour ending nine. Do you have it and what's your price?". The price will be per MWH, but will be quoted as pet MW. It's sloppy, but it's the way it gets done.
Good point, Kilovar. You are no doubt correct in some cases. Thanks for pointing that out. Ed
Bought and sold my share of power in my day, it got way more complicated after J moved to the reliability side
At this point in time all we can do is rely on ERCOT to do the best they can with what they have available at the time and keep us safe. Summer will be the big test as even more solar comes on line. I am not sure politicians know what a wake up call is... you would think Uri was enough, but it seems you have to be screaming in their ears for years before they actually get it and the light switch turns on... or in our case doesn't come on.
I haven't yet decided if it is all the money being waved around, or politicians caution for not wanting to take a stand, or maybe the solar, wind and battery folks bs is just so good they think it is real.
Certainly New York and Gov.Hockul fell for their tall tales and wind got their way with new contracts at almost double the price. Sometimes you just wonder how people can be so stupid, but it's not their money after all - it's ours they are spending!
I agree, JF. Politicians seem to be overcome with mass formation psychosis which is troubling to say the least. With NERC and many power grids sounding the alarm on coming blackouts, one would think that power grids would be backing off on adding more wind and solar but the federal subsidies are just overwhelming the system. The big worry is that natural gas generation is declining rapidly in all deregulated power markets because it cannot compete with wind and solar that can sell into grids at negative prices due to their federal subsidies. The only thing that can change this is a change in administrations.
Thanks again, JF, for subscribing and commenting. You are doing valuable work in Texas so keep it up! Ed
Good correction on the distinction between power and work (Physics 101). Remember the
same sanctimonious elitist ivy league woketard libtard clowns that write these articles, fly
around in private jets and lecture us about how to save the planet also write screenplays.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar30cmR0fUU
We'll just swim down into the still powered-up and still working electrical equipment room
flooded with seawater and flip a few switches. It will be fine !
Thanks, ojizrco. A very bad wakeup call (grid failures) seem hard to avoid at this point. Hopefully we can recover. Thanks for the comment! Ed
Has anyone ever considered what I would call the “entropy effect” of adding more and more wind capacity to the generation system? It seems to me that taking energy out of the atmosphere at a massive scale over large geographic areas will reduce the energy available to propel wind that would have otherwise been available. Combined with the Coriolis effect this seems like it would impact the location of the wind energy and create new wind and weather patterns. Seems like Mom nature would have something to say about that ;-)
You are right on target, Mtnboy44. There is no question that these gigantic wind farms are changing weather patterns because they remove so much kinetic energy from winds. Betz's Law says no wind turbine can capture more than 59.3% of the kinetic energy in wind but that is enough to change wind patterns and therefore wind patterns and the weather. It is madness.
While you are at it demolish all the skyscrapers, flatten all the
mountain ranges, chop down all the forests and ban sailboats.
If you are suggesting that windmills are terrain equivalent to skyscrapers et.al. Remember there is a difference. While they may provide friction to the wind, they are not specifically designed to take additional energy from it, nor cover the vast territories it would take to get to renewable nirvana.
Yes, it looks like the wake up calls won't be heeded until, as you say, the ultimate wake up call - the failure of the grid system. In my opinion, it's already too late to rebuild reliability in a timely fashion, because it takes several years to build and bring online power plants that will restore reliability. At this point, all it will take for the "ultimate" wake up is a bout of extreme weather.
I'm afraid you are correct, Al. Widespread grid failures are almost guaranteed at this point but it will take years to restore the integrity of America's power grids.